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SCIENCE TO THE LIMIT OF POSSIBLE


transhumanismo@sapo.pt

Transhumanism = Scientific current trying to improve Man's Intelligence, and Happiness.

Quinta-feira, 4 de Junho de 2009
EVIL ATTAINS ... THE GOOD

Rui Barbosa, PhD (U. Grenoble, France), Founder of the First Humanity+ Portuguese Chapter, transhumanismo@sapo.pt.

 

Rui Barbosa, PhD (U. Grenoble, France), Founder of the First Humanity+ Portuguese Chapter, transhumanismo@sapo.pt.

 

Why?

In the context of a dialogue with Cornelia Holsten from Germany, we referred 3 kinds of evil which were identified by Teillard de Chardin (1) as tools of the Cosmic Evolution: Work, Tentative-error and Decomposition (Illness and Death).
The last question put by Cornelia Holsten was:
- For the disadvantaged individual it is no comfort at all to know he is necessary as a tool while others are favoured.
What evidence does he have to know there is an evolutionary plan behind which might be only 'effective' when he
has been dead for decades or even centuries? Why should he believe and trust in God?.
- Again the criteria of good and bad for God is different from the human: Christ said “blessed those who suffer because they will be relieved…”. The Evil explains as far as I know the existence of Suffering. The point is: Either we consider that Matter is, with no creator, from infinity, restructuring itself and producing disabled and favoured people and that’s only a matter of hazard; in this case, the disabled just would regret their bad luck, with no hope. Or we consider that if Matter has laws, it couldn’t legislate itself, and then there was a fist being, God; the result is the same for the disadvantaged with the difference that they know a reason for their suffering …
A certain excess of evil, more gratuitous, and more unexplainable, due to some original deviation or “catastrophe”, according to Teillard de Chardin, can only be studied and explained by Theology; for the moment, the answer I know it is that it is a mystery. Nowadays, we know that Cosmos has a primitive unexplained asymmetry; would this have something to do with it?
- For me this explanation sounds too weak ... and rather like an escape.
- It is my possible answer. I think that the Revelation of God attained its maximum in the person of Christ; you look and listen to what Christ said, and know what God wants. Secondarily, the Revelation confirms the existence of God
- Why does God admit suffering and dying of young/religious/trustful … people? (Why are bad people often lucky people?) Which sense is behind?
- The freedom to do the Good (as told by the interior presence of God in ourselves) or the Bad, exists for each man and the good or bad consequences fall in himself and the others: we can ask ourselves why the poor Birmanese suffered so much the floods; but we can also ask why they or the powerful people having the possibility of helping them, challenged the laws of Nature, therefore the laws of God, therefore God. I think that the answer is in the solidarity that God would like for Humankind; whose maximum example is Christ, a pefectly religious and good man, God himself, who was crucified and ressurrected considering that the eternal life is what matters...
- You mean: suffering/dying though young/innocent ... is a result of bad behaviour of others? An accident caused by a drunken driver kills a baby. The baby dies while the drunken man is not even hurt ...Why doesn't God punish the bad others instead of the innocent? If you were the father of this baby would you still think it was finally and probably a wise plan/sign?
- Nature (Quantic Field) is a set of forces relating bodies one another; it is built as solidaire in all domains; Hans-Peter Dürr explained it very clearly: materially we cannot isolate anything from  the rest, it’s impossible. Even if at our eyes the bodies are separable…
- I don't agree because my example (above) was very concrete: If God is (our) fair judge why is he so unfair to punish the innocent instead of the guilty person? For Him it should be the same - if he needs suffering as punishment for bad behaviour.... 
-   He will reward the victims of other’s evil; and punish these.
- Why does he admit that His human beings destroy themselves (in wars etc)?
- The freedom of Man, who is always  aware of the consequences because of the internal presence of God in himself, is a basic characteristic that God wants for Man; otherwise Man would have a much less value as a creature. That’s why Robots will never be like Men.
- Children, the most abused and fragile human beings, can't be aware of the consequences.
- I meant adults!
Reader! The dialogue must pursue in the next chronicle … Until it …
 
References
(1) “The Human Phenomenon”; Teillard de Chardin
 
Cornelia Holsten from Germany to whom I answered some questions, wrote me to correct the following parts of that dialogue:
I said:
- A certain excess of evil, more gratuitous, and more unexplainable, due to some original deviation or “catastrophe”, according to Teillard de Chardin, can only be studied and explained by Theology; for the moment, the answer I know it is that it is a mystery. Nowadays, we know that Cosmos has a primitive unexplained asymmetry; would this have something to do with it?
- For me this explanation sounds too weak ... and rather like an escape.
Later,
I said:
-Again the criteria of good and bad for God is different from the human: Christ said “blessed those who suffer because they will be relieved…”. The Evil explains as far as I know the existence of Suffering. The point is: either we consider that Matter is, with no creator, from infinity, restructuring itself and producing disabled and favoured people and that’s only a matter of hazard; in this case, the disabled just would regret their bad luck, with no hope. Or we consider that if Matter has laws, it couldn’t legislate itself, and then there was a fist being, God; the result is the same for the disadvantaged with the difference that they know a reason for their suffering … Transhumanism has an important role to play in trying at maximum to eradicate suffering: if God loves us He cannot deny us that effort, otherwise He must explain why not (?)...
- Supposed Transhumanism will succeed one day in eradicating suffering: What motivates God then to continue his evolutionary plan? Or will evolution not be necessary then anymore? Will transhumanists finally adopt God's role as for the permanent improvement of the material parts of human beings? (I was particularly referring to "eradicating suffering".....!)
 
Totality of my chronicles: Transhumanismo Portugal

I'm feeling: Sorry

Published by Transhumanismo às 15:43
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